Chapter 1: An Unexpected Party

[Emmie]

As discussed here (http://www.hobbitforums.com/showthread.php?t=45), a few HobbitForums members are going to be reading The Hobbit as a group, at the rate of one chapter per week. Anyone is welcome to join in.

This is the thread for the first chapter, "An Unexpected Party". Feel free to talk about anything related to it, but I'll post a few questions to get things started:


A lot of the first chapter is spent introducing various things: Bilbo, Gandalf, the dwarves, and the details of the Lonely Mountain/Smaug. How would this work on screen? Will there be a prologue of some sort, similar to what they did for Fellowship of the Ring? Is there anything from this part of the book that you're particularly hoping to see in the movie?


What do you think the movie will/should open with?


In the book, the comfort-loving "Baggins" side of Bilbo is in conflict with his more adventurous "Tookish" one. Bilbo tells Gandalf "[We] have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner!"... and then, after the dwarves sing their song, [S]omething Tookish woke up inside him, and he wished to go and see the great mountains, and hear the pine-trees and the waterfalls, and explore the caves, and wear a sword instead of a walking-stick. How do you think this could be done in a movie format? Or is it something that will need to be shown graudally over the course of the entire movie, rather than at the beginning at Bag End?


There are two songs in the chapter, "Chip the glasses and crack the plates!" and "Far over the misty mountains cold". Do you think either of these will make it into the movie in some form? Do you want them to?


Any favorite parts from Chapter One in general?

I'll add my own thoughts about some of these things, in a separate post, as soon as I have time.

The point of this is to give everyone a chance to re-read The Hobbit, but if you want a summary of the events that take place in this chapter you can find one here: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/An_Unexpected_Party

[Emmie]

I'm going to delay the Chapter 2 thread for a week, since no one posted in this one.

[jimmyboy]

I just noticed this whole deal, and I'm in. I'll start reading chapter 1 either tonight or tomorrow, and then contribute here.

[Elven]

I read the chapter, I just didn't get here in time to post last week!

Time to answer questions!

1. This chapter definitely involves a lot of setup and I'm not sure how I'd like it to translate to screen at the moment. I don't think it needs a FotR-style start as a lot of the Lonely Mountain and Smaug stuff comes from Gandalf and the dwarves so I believe it should stay that way. As for introducing Bilbo and Hobbits, I think that will be unnecessary considering that the LotR films have already been made and were so very popular!

2. Opening of the movie, I'm not sure. Shots of Hobbiton will be a given, I think, panning to Bag End and Bilbo going about daily life, possibly with the narration of the opening paragraph over the top. (Even if Ian Holm doesn't play Bilbo, I'd love him to narrate that.)

3. Showing the two sides of Bilbo will be difficult if they don't want to get too in-depth into Bilbo's family tree straight away. There's an awful lot of detail and back story in that first chapter and that's something that is fine for a novel but would not work at all well for a movie (in my opinion). I think the development of Bilbo's character with regards to his 'Tookish' nature and homeloving side should be something that should be gradually explored as part of his greater development. Those people who are going to see the film who aren't such big fans will need to be eased into it rather than having a lot of explanatory backstory dumped on their heads!

4. While I doubt that the songs will be left in, I do believe it would be possible to get the Misty Mountains one in as this is incorporated into an after-dinner musical interlude. The hobbits had drinking songs in LotR so there is a precedent for it and it could work. Having both so close to the start of the film would give off the wrong impression, I feel. No one wants it to go Broadway! (Not that I'm suggesting it would but it would be tough to do well).

5. My favourite part of chapter 1 will always be those opening lines. To me, they are iconic, namely as the part of the book that I remember best! They also remain a favourite as I find the opening to be quite quirky in a way and I like it. It's very fairytale-esque in the way that it starts and gives the feeling of wanting to settle down to listen to a good tale.

[jimmyboy]

Q&A:

How would this work on screen? Will there be a prologue of some sort, similar to what they did for Fellowship of the Ring?

What do you think the movie will/should open with?

If there's a prologue, I imagine it would be about Smaug coming and attacking the Lonely Mountain. Then, like FOTR did, it would cut to the Shire and to Bilbo sitting out front of his house smoking a pipe, and Gandalf coming along (never early or late, but precisely when he means to).

Is there anything from this part of the book that you're particularly hoping to see in the movie?
I'd like to the see the White Council, and discussions of the Necromancer and his agents, the Nazgul, or at least the Witch-king. If they're going to make this into two parts, each hopefully 3.5+ hours long, then there's plenty of time to expand the original story to include some of this interesting background stuff. In this way we could see a bit of interaction between Gandalf and Saruman about rings of power, and the Necromancer. This would show that there had long been a rivalry between the two, and that it was somehow connected to the rings of power, including the One Ring, which will play an important role in this story.

In the book, the comfort-loving "Baggins" side of Bilbo is in conflict with his more adventurous "Tookish" one. Bilbo tells Gandalf "[We] have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner!"... and then, after the dwarves sing their song, [S]omething Tookish woke up inside him, and he wished to go and see the great mountains, and hear the pine-trees and the waterfalls, and explore the caves, and wear a sword instead of a walking-stick. How do you think this could be done in a movie format? Or is it something that will need to be shown graudally over the course of the entire movie, rather than at the beginning at Bag End?
I think it should be shown much how it is in the book, during the discussions between the dwarfs and Gandalf. We should see flashes of the terrible things Bilbo imagines. At first we see him purely terrified. Then we seem him beginning to wonder if such things aren't quite so bad as he's imagining them. He goes back and forth with the two sides of himself, kinda like Gollum did in the movies. He wants to go, then he doesn't; then he does, then he's hesitant; then he's really really doesn't want to go...then he finally gives in and goes.

There are two songs in the chapter, "Chip the glasses and crack the plates!" and "Far over the misty mountains cold". Do you think either of these will make it into the movie in some form? Do you want them to?
I think these could easily and tastefully be done in a movie. We could have a shorter version of the "chip the glasses" song, maybe just a couple of lines from one of the dwarfs as they're in the kitchen, making light of Bilbo's fussing about all the commotion.

The other song can be sung, or recited, by Thorin or Gandalf, as he's showing them the map.

Now I'm imagining what a Bollywood version of the LOTR and Hobbit movies would be like. They always have songs and musical interludes! I do kinda hope they make a version someday. :)

Any favorite parts from Chapter One in general?
This is such a wonderful book! Not only is it a great tale in and of itself, but it also part of a Greater Tale, of which we have some very intersting hints: we have the Necromancer, the dragons, and Heroes (even if it's only a quick and vague mention of them). There's nearly nothing said of the Necromancer, but what is said makes me begin to imagine all sorts of things:

From Gandalf, of course:
"He is an enemy far beyond the powers of all the dwarfs put together, if they could be collected again from the four corners of the world!"
(Who is this great power, and why is he called the Necromancer?)

"Even I, Gandalf, only just escaped [from the Necromancer's dungeons]!"
(Why was Gandalf there? Was he (yes, even Gandalf) a prisoner??)
(Is the dragon Smaug a great power comparable to the Necromancer? If so, are they somehow connected to each other, and if so, how?)

I love how this story is actually part of a bigger story, though we now know that it wasn't for years later that the rest of the story would be slowly revealed to the world. We also know who the Necromancer is, and we know from other sources (or was it revealed later in this story? I don't remember) that he was dealt with to some extent by Gandalf and his allies. We also know who those allies are, and they too are a significant part of the Greater Tale.

What's interesting too is that Tolkien includes as part of his storytelling, little poems and songs. The songs that are here speak of the Misty Mountains, and whenever I hear that name I usually think of Led Zeppelin. Interesting that Middle-earth and heavy blues rock are somehow related in our minds. (I say "our" because I know I'm not the only one who thinks like this. :) ) Without these poems and songs we wouldn't have the whole story, and that's part of Tolkien's unique, older style of flowery, three-dimensional storytelling.

[Emmie]

I don't think it needs a FotR-style start as a lot of the Lonely Mountain and Smaug stuff comes from Gandalf and the dwarves so I believe it should stay that way.
I agree that this would probably be the best way to do it, although in FOTR they were very anxious to keep things moving. In the director/writer commentary they said there was a lot more to the Bag End dialogue scene that they shot but didn't end up using.

2. Opening of the movie, I'm not sure. Shots of Hobbiton will be a given, I think, panning to Bag End and Bilbo going about daily life, possibly with the narration of the opening paragraph over the top. (Even if Ian Holm doesn't play Bilbo, I'd love him to narrate that.)It'll be fun to see Hobbiton again. I Having Ian Holm narriate the beginning of the first movie (and perhaps the end of the second) would work really well to explain the setting and draw people into it.

If they don't do that I actually think they should open with Gandalf and follow him as he goes to Bag End and knocks on Bilbo's door. I suppose they could make an opening with Bilbo work (I haven't thought too much about what sort of scenes they'd do to introduce him) but Gandalf would have the advantage of being recognized instantly. And, like the Ian Holm narration, I think it would draw people into the story well.

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I hope they thoroughly show Bilbo's comfort-loving side in the beginning (perhaps with a scene of him enjoying his tea or something - it could be somewhat humorous, even, if done right). I think it would be possible (through the actor's expression) to show him growing excited despite himself at the dwarves' story and the prospect of seeing the wild lands.

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I was initially thinking that both songs could work if done very carefully, but now I'm having second thoughts about the first one, just because it's essentially something they invented on the spot and that may not be plausible.

I do really hope they keep the second one, though, as it's a pretty "iconic" part of the book and one that I love. I think they may. You're right about the hobbit's drinking songs in LotR, but even if there hadn't been those I wouldn't reference LotR for what they can and can't do; The Hobbit has a little more of a fairytale feeling, and from the interviews I've read it sounds like the director understands this.

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Favorite bits:

Well, my favorite passage is probably one that I quoted in my original post. "He wished to go and see the great mountains, and hear the pine-trees and the waterfalls, and explore the caves, and wear a sword instead of a walking-stick." I really, really love that. It makes me imagine beautiful mountains and pine-trees and waterfalls and caves myself, and I can totally understand Bilbo's desire to see them, especially since he's spent all his life around the Shire.

Other than that, I've always rather liked the Misty Mountains song.

Oh - and I remember when I was super young and had The Hobbit read to me, Bilbo's cry of "struck by lightning, struck by lightning!" made me giggle hysterically.

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Not only is it a great tale in and of itself, but it also part of a Greater Tale, of which we have some very intersting hints: we have the Necromancer, the dragons, and Heroes (even if it's only a quick and vague mention of them).
I agree. I actually only recently realized some of the connections between The Hobbit and some of the events in The Lord of the Rings - I'm looking forward to reading some of Tolkien's other books as soon as I can.

[LordDrakh]

Hey all--

Only just tripped onto this site, and so far, I'm digging what I see. Too bad there doesn't seem to be a lot of chatter, alas.

I must confess that it's been forever since I've read "The Hobbit", and my copy is in hiding somewhere among the flotsam and jetsam in my apartment. (I hope it's not in storage!) But I remember a great deal, and my memory's further jogged by these other excellent posts....

Regarding "An Unexpected Party" as written. As noted before, it's a wonderful piece of set-up: not only introducing the key players in the Quest to Erebor, but life in Middle-Earth in general, and in the Shire and Hobbits specifically. This is a writer's first and single most important problem to solve (in any undertaking): to suck the reader into his world. Tolkein had it worse than most, as he's one of the first modern authors to not only create the situation, but an entire world besides. Imagine going into a 1930's version of Borders, and finding not just the latest Dashiell Hammett novel but this rather odd little piece of piffle, "The Hobbit". "Who's this Tolkein fellow, and what manner of book is this?"

In the first paragraph, he not only introduces us to Hobbits and Hobbiton, but Middle-Earth as well, and hints at the wonders beyond the Shire. We then get to meet Bilbo, of course, followed by his old friend Gandalf. I love the wordplay in their conversation (forgive an old man's fading memory; I must paraphrase): "You have asked for it twice: my pardon", referring to Bilbo's all-too common use of "I beg your pardon." I think that was my first hint at the joys of punning. Then come the Dwarves, poor Bombur bringing up the rear (again!). Color-coding the hoods was a neat touch, as well.

Very soon after the meet-and-greet, we're off to the races, as they say. "We're on a Grand Quest, and we need your help!" "Who, me?!? Whatever for?" "Burgling, of course; we need a thief. We're told you're an Expert." Shocked look to Gandalf: "What kind of mess have you gotten me into now?"

The songs, of course, help immensely. "Crack the Plates" is a nice light touch, before we get into the Heavy Stuff later. After treating Bilbo more like a servant than a kind--and infinitely patient!--host, the Dwarves show a far more considerate side in putting away the crockery. Then comes "Beyond the Misty Mountains", delving into Dwarvish history (speaking of puns....) and the Coming of Smaug. Heady, heavy stuff.

As introductions go, "An Unexpected Party" ranks as one of the best. Movie thoughts later; as a first post, this is long enough as is. (heh, heh)


Lord Drakh

[Emmie]

Welcome to the forums! Good points about the chapter.

It's true that there hasn't been a lot of chatter lately, but I hope to start promoting it more soon, and I think we should see more activity once the movies start filming.

As you might have noticed, we paused these chapter-by-chapter discussions after the second chapter because most of our members were too busy to take part, and they never really resumed. I'd still like to start them again at some point, though. :)